An Interview with revolutionary hip hop collective RHYMETHiNK: Building Radical Communities
Étienne Lavallée documents London’s current art scene with The Honey Dip Archives, a series of interviews with bands that performed at Honey Dip’s one year anniversary celebration. Here, he meets Lee Reed (MC/ vocals/ lyrics), Tarek Funk (MC Multi-instrumentalist Hip Hop Funk Afrobeat artist), and C. Reality (MC/ Producer/ DJ), of “RHYMTHiNK” from Toronto, a collective that describes itself as anti-colonial, anti-capitalist, anti-fascist, and anti-authoritarian.
***
RHYMETHiNK audio interview:
Étienne Lavallée: You’re described as a revolutionary hip hop collective. Revolutionary art historically faces the threat of commodification, it often risks being watered down to a trend by corporations. How do you protect your message from being co-opted, and how do you ensure that it retains its revolutionary edge?
Lee Reed: I think that we try really hard to make music for our community and about our community. We do a lot of fundraising events, probably more fundraising events than real music shows. The spaces that we play in and the people that we build with are typically from an organizing or an activist or revolutionary community. When we get to tour we are most often brought out with anchoring shows around those things. A lot of anarchist book fairs. I went to Europe in November – it was all squats, social spaces, and book fairs. I think that it’s easier to remain true to that stuff when you try your hardest to sort of do it for and about that community of folks, so materially supporting these causes as best we can. That sort of keeps this clear of a lot of the BS I would say.
Tarek Funk: I think just involving Lee and C does that on its own. My music is the one that’s kind of at risk of being commodified the most because I can’t be the token Arab in some spaces, or the token Syrian guy, or Palestinian guy, but I think also intentionality around what we’re saying, and keeping it as, you know, revolutionary as possible that in itself will do the work for us. In terms of making sure that no company is ever going to be like, “Yo, we want you up on a big stage!” If it just so happens that it does get to that point where we’re on a huge stage, and the lyrics and the content hasn’t changed, I think that would still be a win overall. More people get to hear some powerful stuff and some revolutionary rhymes and messages, so I’m not necessarily opposed to bigger stages and bigger platforms. As long as I’m rocking with these guys there’s no risk of it being watered down whatsoever.
Cee Reality: Yeah definitely, the viscosity is going up as we continue. There’s no watering down the messages. We’re, if anything, going harder than ever. We’re not too worried about that at this point but like Tarek said, if that appeals to more people, which I think given the state of the world right now [it is] – like we’ve been doing this for a long time. It was a less appealing message 10-15 years ago. There were smaller crowds. Given how destitute so many people are, the genocides and wars being waged across the world, I think more people than ever are interested in the message. So we’re more banking on that than trying to appeal in a commercial sense. We want to have larger stages in terms of getting the message out, [reach] some more people, but we’re never gonna compromise what we’re saying.
Étienne Lavallée: Your message carries anti-capitalist messages, but unfortunately music tends to rely right now on major streaming services and algorithms for distribution. How does your collective balance the need to reach a wide audience with the reality of using corporate infrastructure?
Cee Reality: I’ll jump right back in. I feel everything – all of our entire existence and ability to sustain ourselves on this planet – relies on corporate infrastructure. At the end of the day, we are all compromised to one degree or another. All the online platforms are compromised by the tech oligarch absolute fuckery, so it is a really hard thing. I think we’re just balancing now with how many people we’re trying to reach and it is definitely something we talked about as well, what platforms we wanna be on.
Lee Funk: I pulled all my music from Spotify. I play less now. I don’t really give a shit whether I reach a whole lot of people. There’s really no way of navigating it without that to some degree, so I didn’t put my music on Spotify. It’s on YouTube, on Instagram. I think that it’s something that’s very front of mind for us. How to go about this one thing that we’re really interested in is being able to build outside of that space as best we can and getting more intentional about that. We didn’t bring our set up for tonight but we usually try to push e-mail lists on people, trying to get away from social media. That’s a big goal for me as a collective. We triangulate our views on that stuff to decide but I think we’re all in agreement. Rap doesn’t often use a DIY approach the way say punk does, or folk punk. I think that that’s a world that we kind of exist in, that you don’t really see in rap culture normally. It’s a lot about sponsorships and bigger events and trying to build off of headlining. We’ve been throwing regular shows in Toronto, I think all of them have been fundraisers, other than maybe one. We’re trying to build infrastructure and ways of doing this. Outside of these things, the process is part of the message, the form is the content, or whatever they used to say. That’s important to us and it’s something that we’re still navigating, and I don’t think it’s easy to be perfect these days. There’s not many people that are able to live in that level of obscurity and still thrive. It’s something that we want, definitely something I want. I think again it goes back to not diluting the content.
Tarek Funk: Like Cee said there’s essentially no ethical consumption under the systems of capitalism, so for me personally this is a tough one but my stuff’s still on Spotify, still on everywhere, because I know that I need people to hear it and that’s how they’re gonna hear it. As long as you know we’re as militant as we can be about what we’re saying, as anti-zionist, anti-capitalist, anti-colonial as we can be, maybe you can hit a bigger platform and get even more people. I think maybe Kneecap is one of those examples of how to not step away from what you’re doing while still embracing a bigger success but, yeah, ultimately all these companies are trash.
Étienne Lavallée: There’s often a gap between writing music about social change and doing the groundwork. You folks mentioned briefly that you are doing more fundraisers than you are organizing actual music shows. In what way does your collective connect themes in your songs to active community organizing and mutual aid?
Cee Reality: The last show we did in Toronto was a fundraiser for Toronto Indigenous Harm Reduction and West End Collective Action Network, which is a mutual aid group I’m a part of. We were deeply enmashed in the activist network, we’re going on 20 years. Those communities are not just demographics we’re trying to market ourselves to, we’re part of those communities and so when we’re doing these shows and fundraisers, it’s comrades. It’s not some random community or somebody’s group that we’re pitching our message towards, it’s comrades that we work on the ground with and have relationships with for years at this point. It’s all about building those horizontal networks.
Tarek Funk: Similarly, I think for me being part of the Arabic community, I get to connect directly with some people overseas. Some of the shows we’ve thrown, some of the benefit concerts we’ve done, are for the Burj al-Barajneh Refugee Camp in Beirut and Toronto Sudanese Solidarity Collective, keeping it as directly embedded in what we’re talking about is where the funds are going as much as we can make it happen.
Lee Reed: I would say other examples of that being the relationship that we developed with Test their Logik. Cee was part of Test their Logik, was building bridges with Unistʼotʼen Camp out West just after the Olympics. When the Wetʼsuwetʼen started their struggle, we’ve known Slater, we’ve known Jenn, we’ve known those folks a long time. Cee and I worked on a song together called Get the Fuck Off the Yintah, which ended up getting used for their documentary on their resistance. I do a lot of housing organizing so I put out an EP about housing in Hamilton and gentrification. All the proceeds went towards the East Hamilton Rent Strike in Hamilton. Through the shows that we did, the sales of the album, and selling hot dogs, we raised over $25,000 for the folks to use for their legal fees when they were fighting at the LTB to support a rent strike. So, trying our best to materially support this sort of you know work that’s going on in our community, and, yeah, that often looks like fundraising but sometimes it’s things that we’re working on or that our homies are working on.
Étienne Lavallée: Your lyrics don’t shy away from confronting state power. How do you view the balance between advocating for radical systemic change and keeping your community safe from potential backlash?
Lee: We were talking about that today. I’m in Hamilton right now, and the fash are really growing. How bold they’re getting, how they’re showing up, and how frequently is a new thing. By talking about this stuff, bringing people together to talk about this stuff, that’s about the safest thing we can do for people. As the phrase says, we keep us safe. Bringing people out so that they can connect with other like-minded people, to learn about other things that are going on in our community, to learn about what dangers there are, what to avoid as well. I think that by being loud about this stuff is actually kind of a bit of a safety net as much as it is a target. I think that you know we’re all cis dudes and we’re all able to be in a lot of different kind of spaces without being in a lot of danger. If anyone is going to be able to safely yell about this stuff, it is our responsibility to say it as loud and as clearly as we can. Through the space that we’re creating, we’re creating safety for people, by allowing people to connect.
Cee Reality: Exactly– the power in numbers. We are on the not-so-slow decline into fascism and techno fascism and the only chance we have to get through these times is to build radical communities and if we abdicate that responsibility, it’s not going to keep anybody safer. It is kind of a double-edged sword in that the more you fight back the more repression there is, but at this point we really don’t have any other option because it’s pretty clear what the ruling class wants to do with the dystopian present we live in, the genocidal present we live in. All the things that have been exported to other parts of the world, like Gaza, the West Bank, are technologies that are going to be, and have been, and are being employed here. We have to, for our own safety and long-term survival, just really come to terms with this situation we’re in collectively and really come at that without pulling any punches. We are seeing a massive reactionary response to the economic crisis people are facing. We have to have a better message than the fash, because they have billionaires backing them and their message. We have to be able to agitate with our propaganda just as much. We don’t have that backing in that bullhorn, we have to do it just in whatever way we can.
Tarek Funk: In some ways I have conceded that this stuff is just going to happen. These people are just going to show up anyways. They’re going to be assholes anyways, you have got to be loud regardless. There’s smart ways to be together at the end of the night, people have got to walk home together. You have got to make sure that you keep an eye out on who’s in the audience, but people are fishy. We had Zionists, we’ve had cops show up, and some people have been doxxed. Especially in the anti-zionist movement, people have been doxxed for sure, if you’re gonna be loud and effective about this stuff, it’s going to be hard to not face those people and their intentions. I’m definitely seeing people lose jobs over this kind of thing, and death threats, calls home, but you can’t step away regardless because it’s only going to get worse. You have got to stay tough.
Étienne Lavallée: Anarchism emphasizes horizontal structure rather than top down control. How does this reflect in your studio sessions?
Lee: For the most part, the projects that we do collectively, all the beats are made by Cee Reality. Tarek’s a very musically talented dude. Some of my solo stuff, I’ve got beats from other people, but what we’ve been doing as RHYMETHiNK, pretty much all beats are by Cee. We record at Cee’s place so we treat that space as kind of a headquarters, a base of operations oftentimes for meetings there and practices there. I would say that anarchist thinking comes into play when we are trying to agree on things. We disagree on how to go about things all the time, and we lightly argue about this sort of stuff all the time. Musical moves, what a song should be about, how it should be approached. We operate mostly by consensus, we will argue and discuss until we all can find common ground. Anybody who’s done anarchist organizing can understand how that can take more time. The result can can be something that everybody is on board with, so I think that we approach just about everything, the names of things, artwork, these sorts of things, we’ll often sort of butt heads about how it should look or how it should sound, or what it should say exactly, but we’re always able to find common ground in a way we’re all happy with. I would say that the consensus model of decision making is a big part of how we operate and that’s a very anarchist thing.
Tarek Funk: Being in a collective also doesn’t stop us from having our own solo space to do our weirder or whatever – when we can’t see our way out – of a way of making one particular song together, so that kind of freedom is great because I do a lot of saxophone and funky stuff and covers of Arabic music, covers of disco and funk, and all kinds of stuff, and dance parties that don’t necessarily reflect the hardcore anarchist thing we’re doing here together. Ultimately, I don’t think any of us in our own solo endeavors step away from the general ethos of what we’re doing. We’re in great company.
Cee Reality: Definitely co-sign that, I got so many beats and I can’t make songs out of all of them, not even close, and so it’s hearing these guys take that and come up with the idea and then be able to inspire me to then be able to write to that, it’s amazing. These are two of my favorite rappers and getting to make music with them, they’re also homies. It’s wicked, it’s enjoyable and even if there’s disagreements on things, it’s the process. And it’s so enjoyable to me that it’s such a small thing to disagree. I have my own projects I’m working on, on the side, so if I need to express myself in a way where I don’t want any kind of disagreement, I can just do that myself.
Étienne Lavallée: Any plans coming up in the future in terms of tour plans, singles, album drops, or solo projects?
Cee Reality: Yeah, we have all of the above. No tours specifically, but we have a few more shows coming up the start of August. A show in Toronto at BSMT with an old homie, D-Liberate, that used to be in a group Test their Logik, are going to be in town – he was one of the founding members of RHYMETHiNK, he lives in the States now so it’s always a great pleasure when he comes back in town. We’re having a show in Hamilton as well. Tarek Funk is playing Bloom Festival, I might be playing at as well, it’s yet to be seen right now.
Tarek Funk: I got a couple of shows with my band where we do classic Arabic music tributes to Fairuz so I have one on June 25th and another one on July 9th, July 9th is in Toronto. Bloom Festival as well, I’m doing one show where I’m making a live soundtrack to a film that’s without dialogue at this place in Toronto called Institute so I’m going to be live – looping all the different instruments to kind of match the aesthetics of this film that I chose, which is the classic film directed by David Lean, Lawrence of Arabia(1963). It’s gonna be sweet, it’s gonna be really sweet.
Lee Reed: I have an EP dropping soon. It’s going to be a record about housing, it’s called How the Defenestration of One Landlord Changed the Course of the Canadian Housing Crisis that’s coming out soon. We’re collectively working on a record as RHYMETHiNK that’s primarily the three of us doing the writing on it so far, but our homie D–Liberate are going to be working on it as well. Cee and I have been invited out to Haida Gwaii out West. In the fall we’ll be at the Vancouver Anarchist Book Fair. Very excited about that!
Étienne Lavallée: Are there any artists, musicians or grassroots organizations that you’d like to put on our reader’s radars?
Lee Reed: Artist-wise I would encourage people, if you’re into revolutionary rap music, to look into Savage Fam. I’ve had the pleasure of getting to play a few shows with Savage Fam. They’re a very revolutionary Indigenous collective from Salish out West, I would also say our homie Unknown Mizery, Babylon Warchild, Legitimate from Babylon Warchild has solo stuff now, that if you like Revolutionary rap music, you’d probably be into. There are RHYMETHiNK collective members that aren’t here right now, Kay the Aquanaut has a vast body of work, some of it very expressly revolutionary. The homie Kimmortal from out West.
Cee Reality: Onglish.
Tarek Funk: Some of my musical homies are Scribe and Onglish. Also shout out to Eyeda Sophia, they’re great. Kimmortal for sure.
Cee Reality: Bambu and the Neighborhood Kids, those are some dope revolutionary vibes. Bambu’s been doing it for a minute. dead prez from back in the day, one of my big inspirations. Going to try to see Boot Riley’s new film real soon! I love that he’s moved into that space. In terms of grassroots organizations, Toronto Indigenous Harm Reduction, they’re comrades, Rival Soundsystem taking more of the radical approach to raves and raving, doing amazing stuff. West End Community Action Network (WECAN), mutual aid.
